Mosuos vs Us Part 4 3-4-24 How we differ, how we compare

Rasa to Pete Jackson:

Just wondering – are you WISHING all my rules will change or be revoked? {Re Part 3}

Pete Jackson speaks:

No, not in the near future, and probably not in my lifetime either.  But in the distant future, generations from now, I am hoping that things would eventually evolve to the point where at least some of the rules could perhaps be relaxed a bit, especially for congenital Members (those who were born into the Order).  That is all I will say in that regard. 

Rasa responds:

    Oh that’s a good thought.  What becomes of those who are born into the Order, rules & all.  They will have to abide by them, as it’s in our ‘culture’ by then the way things are taken for granted once a culture is set.  For instance, consider the Mosuos having girls available for sex by age 13.  {It doesn’t say what age boys are allowed to visit & have sex}  Puberty for a boy would be somewhat later…..In their culture it’s accepted, but in America they’d all be ARRESTED, – the adults – And kids put in foster homes.

    A lot is left unsaid in the Wiki explanation of the Mosuos which I will address – especially re sex, dates.

    Much of this has to  EVOLVE.  ‘Theory of evolution.’  But we have a BEGINNING & idea of what is our GOAL?  At some point I will have to describe our ultimate goal & which rules can change, which are stable {with no stable rules the Order will fall apart.}

    And how the males born into our Order evolve as MATRIARCHS is a good question.  If they decide to become Patriarchs for whatever reason – there’s the door.  They would injure the Order by being in it – influencing others. 

  PS  I do sense a slight feeling of hostility from you re the Order, what I’m saying.  What is it that’s bothering you?  The fact that we want to be left alone?  At first, you agreed, which was so different from someone else who kept talking about ‘femdom men’ & helping them.  You said several times in defense of the Order, & the New Religion, that you agreed women must do this & to do otherwise would be counterproductive to what we want.  The other friend couldn’t take it & withdrew.

    The average man or even way above average – has gone berserk when I speak like this – they are IMPOSSIBLE to discuss these issues with.  I’ve had revenge including death threats for JUST TALKING either on internet or in person.

    Your reaction is MILD but it’s there.  When you approve of something or like it you’re very talkative, filled with ideas.  But now you’ve become somewhat silent, like a person gets when they disapprove but don’t want to say so or don’t want to criticize to make the other person mad – they bite their tongue.

    You are HELPING when you voice your TRUE FEELINGS.  It’s kind of like Lt. Col Gxxx – I wrote him wanting to work together.  He was gung ho until he discovered that I wanted women to rule the family & the world.  He stopped writing then.  I channeled his mind & he said,

    “The thought of women dominating the world including myself gives me a feeling of revulsion.”  

    And so my main question to you is if things bother you that I propose, why is that?  And what would be your alternative suggestion or rule re keeping this Order together & keeping women & children safe?

    If you drop out of this discussion {which I trust you won’t} I’ll have to just keep going alone – as there isn’t any man I can converse with on this & no woman.  One lady friend’ of mine told me my work for Matriarchy is IRRELEVANT. 

    In your articles you’ve said often ‘Let the healing begin’ – ‘this has to change yesterday’ & you are as aware of male transgressions in running the world as I have.  How does the healing begin?  What has to change, then?  If you don’t like what I propose, what is your proposition?  How do you see the world changing?

That is one of the problems.  We all complain.  The MAJORITY of people who say anything, who are educated in what is actually going on, or even uneducated but are unhappy with things – complain & criticize.  But NO SOLUTION.

    Fr. Groeshel once gave a talk on EWTN about Saints.  He said the difference between Saints & other people is Saints DO SOMETHING.  He then spoke of Mother Theresa of Calcutta how her first act was she found a woman on the street, very ill, took her to her own apt, gave her her own bed & slept on the floor – & there it started.

    You know how evil men have been.  How do we begin Matriarchy? We can all talk the talk. But what is the walk? When & how do we walk the walk? {no pun intended, Walking Marriage is next}     Rasa

From Wikipedia:   Walking marriages[edit source]

One of the best known aspects of Mosuo culture is its practice of “walking marriage” (走婚 zǒu hūn in Chinese), although this practice remains poorly understood.^[16] Walking marriages are the most prominent form of marriage in Mosuo culture; however, it is not unheard of for women in Mosuo culture to marry outside of their culture, therefore participating in marriages other than walking marriages. In a walking marriage, both partners live under the roof of their respective extended families during the day; however, at night it is common for the man to visit and stay at the woman’s house (if given permission) until sunrise. Therefore, they do not technically live in the same household, but they are free to visit when granted permission. Children of parents in a walking marriage are not raised by their father. The brothers of the mother (maternal uncles) in the marriage take on the responsibilities of the father since the father is not typically around during the daytime. Due to the separation of the father and mother, it is crucial for the uncle(s) to play a large role in the development of the child.

       Rasa says: Why is it ‘crucial for the uncle{s} to play a role in the development of the child.’ It’s NICE to have both a Mother & a Father if the Father is a good person – but in the absence of a Dad our Order is the second parent, it does not have to be a physical male. The things a child would seek from a good Dad will be provided. After all, what is it a child needs? Love, comfort when in need, security, food & shelter, an example, a teacher who shows the right path of virtue – being kind to oneself & others. Kids need skills for survival & ordinary daily life – keeping the body & one’s environment clean, organizing a schedule, working, exercising, studying, recreating, enjoying Creation. To receive such things one does not need an Uncle or Dad or any male, in their absence, women can provide. Not saying we push away all men – some will be around here & there, but they are not mandatory for the child’s welfare. {I might add they’ve done studies of adoptive parents, both hetero & lesbian, & there was never ONE CASE of abuse from the lesbians.}

Wikipedia:

Shih (2010) offers the most sophisticated anthropological account of Mosuo practices of sexual union. “All on-going sexual relationships in Mosuo culture are called “walking marriages.” These bonds are “based on mutual affection.”^[15] “When a Mosuo woman or man expresses interest in a potential partner, it is the woman who may give the man permission to visit her. These visits are usually kept secret, with the man visiting the woman’s house after dark, spending the night, and returning to his own home in the morning.”

Rasa says: Nothing wrong with that. But does he carry a candle? Then people will know there’s a fox after the chickens. Does he meet any of those other guys along the way? Then it’s not too secret.

There a lot here they leave out. A female is permitted to start having visitors – any age up to very old? Do they have visitors for sex? And males what age are they considered men who can visit? Is it also 13 or older? What about older men wanting to visit a teenager? How is that looked upon? What about older women who want to date younger men – even teens – is that accepted? Each woman has her own room where males climb to the second floor – in one documentary they said after he climbs the stairs he has to cut some indentations with his knife before climbing thrugh the window. That’s it – no more explanation. They climb into windows? Don’t these rooms have doors to the outside or balcony? It seems there’s a wrap-around balcony on the second floor, where all the women’s rooms are. Might not a male bump into another gonna-be lover?

If I had more information it might expand my ideas of how to have our females meet their lovers. We cannot start at puberty because of our laws. It’s 17 in most states. Sometimes, if people the same age are caught having sex they write it off as the ‘Romeo & Juliet clause’ but if someone say over 18 cohabits with someone under 17 they can be prosecuted. Therefore we must not condone such liaisons. But you can’t stop love. Those of any age can love anyone of any age & tokens of affection can be exchanged without being sex.

The Amish {some sects} have an interesting solution to the problem. One Amish guy says teens are allowed to be in bed together – starting age 16 ½ or so – making out but not sex. He does not say if they’re dressed or naked. This will bring some doubt into our minds if the teens keep to the rules. Maybe some do – some don’t. There’s also the ‘rocking chair’ deal where the girl sits in the boy’s lap – they rock back & forth – again, is this in the living room or bedroom? The parents do not interfere – they know about it & stay in their own room. Here the boy visits the girl, not the other way around. I’d like to know more abut these situations & how many abide by the rues, & how many pregnancies occur? This indicates to me at least the Amish are trying to face reality than simply repressing & scaring the kids into guilt trips. The way most of Patriarchy does including from the Christian pulpits. The idea that sex is ‘dirty’ & abstinence is ‘purity’ still persists.

But how will we handle the need young people – or any people – have for love, affection, warm hugs & touch, sex – how do we face the natural needs of animals?

The only thing I can think of off hand is we neither condone nor condemn. We will not repress or put anyone on a guilt trip, nor will be say ‘go for it’ if they are under age. We might be neutral or even approving of affection, including publicly, between the youth or any age – at appropriate times, not on the street but at friendly dance gatherings, Holidays, etc. Within our religion we will definitely explain our view that neither nudity or sex are sins – it’s between them & God, & they decide in their own conscience what to do. This does not mean ‘anything goes,’ like a man cannot expose himself to a female, or a male for that matter, especially not to a child – that would be a crime. And of course abuse & rape, or using a person are sins.

 Wikipedia continues:

After the birth of the child, the man has no moral, cultural, or legal obligation to take care of the child. However, the child will be raised with adequate care and attention. The overwhelming support from the woman’s extended family allows both the man and woman to engage in sexual relations with whomever they please.

         Rasa says: This suits me fine. We prefer that the males do not interfere with the children, if they become demanding upon a female who wants to be let alone – usually to demonstrate their wrath or us the children against her this man will be expelled from the community {if he’s in it}, an Order of Protection made against him & whatever measures we need to ensure safety for the female & the child/children will be applied.

         The Mosuos have a Patriarchal element, however, where in a large family that has males, some of the men involve with the children of their nieces, etc. We won’t have that element.

General practice[edit source]

“The Mosuo have large extended families, and several generations (great-grandparents, grandparents, parents, children, grandchildren, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, etc.) live together in the same house. Everyone lives in communal quarters, and there are no private bedrooms or living areas, except for women between certain ages (see the section on “coming of age”, below) who may have their own private rooms.”

         Rasa says: Aha, “women of certain age” have those private visiting rooms upstairs – the rest live communally. We shall see about that.

Wikipedia:

“While a pairing may be long-term, the man never lives with the woman’s family, or vice versa. Mosuo men and women continue to live with and be responsible to their respective families. The couple does not share property. The father usually has little responsibility for his offspring.”^[16] However, this does not mean that men can wipe their hands free of responsibilities and spend every night participating in shenanigans. After work, they are obligated to go home and help raise their nieces and nephews. The children rely on the collective effort of the extended family rather than that of the biological father.^[17]

“A father may indicate an interest in the upbringing of his children by bringing gifts to the mother’s family. This gives him status within the mother’s family, while not actually making him part of the family.”^[16]

Matrilineal society[edit source]

Unlike other cultures, women in the Mosuo society dominate the household and family. They are responsible for housework, agricultural duties, and taking care of children. In a walking marriage, the ancestral line is most important on the wife’s side of the family and the children of the couple reside and belong to the wife’s family household.^[16] Considering women are responsible for most domestic jobs, they have a larger role in the walking marriage and are viewed with more respect and importance in this society.^[18]

Husbands in walking marriages have a much less involved role than wives. The husbands in these relationships are generally the figures who are in charge of all religious and political decisions for the family.^[19] Regarding the family responsibilities, the father or husband in the family does not have nearly as many responsibilities regarding the family as the wife does. In fact, the male relatives of the mother’s side of the family, such as uncles and cousins, are generally the “father figure” to the husband’s children.^[16] The mother’s brothers occupy a central role in the household. Their roles include disciplining children, caring for them, and supporting the children financially.^[16] Since the husband and wife live with their separate immediate families, they help take care of the families’ children and issues regarding their household. Even though fathers are involved in their sister’s children’s lives, they are not necessarily involved in their biological children’s life. In walking marriages, the involvement of a father in his child’s life is optional.^[16] If a father decides to be involved in the upbringing of his own biological child, he can bring gifts and help with work around the woman’s household. This relationship can be performed regardless if the woman and man are still in the walking marriage and it gives the man a type of “official status” among the family without being fully involved.

Rasa responds:

We may have an element of that, the Fathers of children volunteering, bringing gifts, doing favors. But they will have no legal rights in many cases – & can never take a child away or see them alone. We will be careful about this, as for instance, a man is not living with or no longer involved with his ‘wife’ but she wants or needs him to drive her somewhere. We recommend the child not go on this trip, as situations could occur where the child is alone with the man, it would be difficult to monitor. He may be even be laying a trap or snare to be alone with the child to do harm. The Order helps its Members to avoid over-dependence on any man.

Wikipedia: Advantages to a walking marriage[edit source]

Other than the child receiving exceptional care and attention from the extended family, there are many inconspicuous advantages for participating in a walking marriage. For example: divorce is never an issue because the man and woman are not legally bound together, thus sharing very few of the same responsibilities. There are also never any disputes over who owns custody of the child since the child belongs to the mother’s extended family and takes the mother’s last name. In the case of a parent’s death, the child still has a prodigious amount of care and affection from the extended family.

Rasa: the extended family in this case is the Order. Each child will also have a surrogate Mother if the Mom is working or absent substantially. It’s not just ‘baby sitting’ – it’s loving the child. Child care centers have little love involved, many are abusive by neglect. I just saw a documentary of abuse where infants & toddlers were kept in a dark cellar:

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. – A Colorado woman accused of hiding 26 children behind a false wall at her daycare center was arrested for investigation of misdemeanor child abuse, police said Thursday.

Carla Faith, 58, was arrested Monday in Colorado Springs on suspicion of two counts of reckless child abuse without injury and a single count of trying to influence a public servant, the El Paso County court records show.

Three employees – Katelynne Nelson, 31, Christina Swauger, 35, and Valerie Fresquez, 24 – were arrested on related charges.

Faith was arrested after a six-week investigation by the city police department’s Crimes Against Children Unit, Lt. James Sokolik said in a statement. She posted $3,000 bond Wednesday. Her next court appearance was set for Jan. 2.

Police went to the Play Mountain Place site on Nov. 13 after receiving complaints that the business was housing more children than its license allowed.”

         This woman was given SIX YEARS.

         My personal experience: I KNOW what it’s like to raise a child by myself, without family or husband -that’s part of the reason I am aware of the desperation of a Mother for adequate, safe child care. I had a husband who was far from good. I was going to leave him & when he found out, he tried to kill me twice by strangulation. I escaped with our baby, then about a year old, lived in a motel & earned a living as a model. A woman in the motel cared for the baby when I was gone. My husband searched for me & found me & told me he had a recurrence of cancer, could I take care of him. I went back & took care of him for 6 months, when he died. Little did I know he’d cancelled his life insurance, out of revenge, & rendered the baby & I penniless. Then I had to work & child care was imperative & I saw the frustration & desperation of it. I did finally find a great lady who was perfect, thank God.

        I have seen reports that most of these centers are strictly business. They give as little care as possible for the price. They hire extra people just in those hours when people drop off or pick up the child – in between the children suffer neglect.

         Our Order worships God, not the Almighty dollar.

Wikipedia:   Myths and controversies[edit source]

Outsiders often believe the following myths:

Mosuo women have many partners[edit source]

“While it is possible for a Mosuo woman to change partners as often as she likes, few Mosuo women have more than one partner at a time. Anthropologists call this system “serial monogamy.” Most Mosuo form long-term relationships and do not change partners frequently.^[5] Some of these pairings may even last a lifetime.”

But, in other anthropologists’ views, it is a more recent change, “in the face of political campaigns and cultural integration with the Han Chinese“, and “previous generations often continued with multiple partners even after a child was born. Some older Na report having upwards of 30, 40, even 50 partners throughout their lifetime”^[15] and despite these changes, “notions of exclusivity are not entrenched, and the Na language has no word for ‘jealousy’.”

Rasa says: There will be no slut shaming or any kind of guilt trip put on females whatever they desire to do re sex. In our religion sex is a private matter – the old traditions re sex come out of the patriarchal mentality, their religion & culture, to hold the woman down – look at the double standard. Our females are free. Even those who want t pursue sainthood will not be criticized for sex, as I know that in my experience I have been One with God, Enlightened, since many years ago. And it was God who told me to quit my celibacy after 31 years, drink, go out & have fun. I did not want to do this buy obeyed. After some time I got really tired of it & longed to be intimate with God again – as this lifestyle deadens one’s spirituality. {Not because of sin but because of consciousness.} And so, I knew it was alright with the Almighty – I quit. Sex did not impede my Union with God & I-we shall judge no woman for it.

Wikipedia:   Fathers of children are commonly not known[edit source]

“The large majority of women know their children’s fathers; it is actually a source of embarrassment if a mother cannot identify a child’s father.^[15] But, “unlike many cultures which castigate mothers and children without clear paternity, Na children induce no such censure”.^[15] The father of a child born from a walking marriage will not see his child during the day, but rather at night time. The father doesn’t play as large a role in the development of the child. “At a child’s birth, the father, his mother and sisters come to celebrate, and bring gifts. On New Year’s Day, a child visits the father to pay respect to him and his household. A father also participates in the coming-of-age ceremony. Though he does not have an everyday role, the father is nevertheless an important partner.”

Rasa: The role of SOME Fathers could be substantial, but I suspect many will be ‘here today, gone tomorrow’ – due to the nature of American men, the POV of our Order, & the wishes of some female members. The participation of the Fathers that remain with us, will be determined as the Order progresses. It could be just the regular American family, it could be less than that or more than that, depending on what the Mom wants & what he wants. It might get complicated of there’s legal marriage; we’ll recommend not going there. In some cases it might be good for social security benefits & pensions, including any inheritance – it all depends on the case. The Order will provide Sacramental marriage for those who wish it.

To be continued – Rasa Von Werder