William Bond, Pete Jackson, Rasa Von Werder discussion

 

Part II Who – What is God  11-16-23

 

from William: Yes it is impossible to understand Pete,

You have three options, God created the universe but who or what created God? The universe exploded out of nothing, (big bang). Or the universe had no beginning and has always existed. I don’t think we have the brains to make sense of this.   William

 

Rasa says: Guys,

        It seems the hang-up for us folks who live in time is the other dimension HAS NO TIME.  In fact, John Mather of NASA said there was no beginning or BIG BANG. He said there is no MIDDLE from which galaxies move.

    If we can BELIEVE without understanding there is no TIME for God, then we’re in Her reality.

    There was no original creation like ‘God made this, God made that,’ or Big Bang like an explosion.  That’s IMAGINING THERE IS TIME – a beginning & an end.  She JUST IS.  She expands, She evolves, She grows, She changes.  She’s alive, She’s organic, lol.   Rasa

 

From Pete: Well-said overall, Rasa.  While I think PanENtheism is probably the closest thing to your vision of God, it is indeed probably best to avoid calling it by that or any other such “canned” words or phrases that already exist, as your vision defies all such categories thus far.  No one word really does it justice IMHO.

 

Rasa says: I know we all look to our ‘frames of reference’ when we hear something new.  Like what is this all about?  Let me check my memory, see what it compares to.  And so we pop up with, ‘Oh, yes, it’s like this – or that.’

Indeed, that pan thing does have similarity so I do understand why you said it.  I will continue to study & point out the differences as I write our doctrine.

{I might add that without frames of reference, or connecting with one concept at a time, it might be impossible to learn. Example: Talk to a 6 year old about physics & they will hear every word but not comprehend. Talk to that child about their daily food & they will. I speak to people about Purgatory & they look at me blankly, then look away or change the subject. They cannot comprehend. Understanding happens for us through STEPS, this leading to that, that connecting to this, etc.}

 

William Bond says: Hi Rasa

I know some mystics and scientists have said that time in an illusion, but I personally cannot imagine a world without time. 

 

I think it makes sense that God doesn’t have morals, an entity that loves unconditionally doesn’t need morals of any kind. The only reason why we need morals, customs, laws and rules to guide us is because we have desires like hatred and fear and want to hurt and deceive others. A truly loving person would have no desire to hurt, harm or deceive anyone else and therefore needs no morals or laws. 

 

As for life and death. We see death as something terrible but from the viewpoint of the spirit world they see death as a release from a body that gives us pain and suffering. So they would see death as a good thing. 

 

I agree that God didn’t create religions. Different religions reflect the different ways people have seen God. Yes we are all One and therefore we are all the body of God.   William

 

Rasa says: Hi William, Pete,

          Here is the most difficult thing for me to solve according to my Christian religion or most other religions:

          The BRUTALITY of predators who MUST hunt, terrorize, terrify, & KILL victims in order to live. We humans are part of that, a terrible part of that – worse than any other animal.

          And this is not CRIME like that of murderers & serial killers, this is NATURE/natural, condoned by God, God is part of it if God is inside all life, all life is part of God’s body.

It behooves me now to RETHINK my religion:

That such acts which come out of INSTINCT, not the demonic, are right & natural for some reason although it is beyond my understanding. I must now believe that ‘perfect peace’ every moment is not permitted or allowed wholesale on our plane – it belongs only to the Other Side, Heaven or next dimension. As part of God’s perfect love, creatures, – all predators – must KILL in order to love their children, to feed & sustain their lives.

I must believe that God not only wants this but is a part of it, as all Creation, physical & spiritual, is the BODY of God, God is doing it.

Again I add God is not part of demonic murder, crime, unnecessary cruelty, not even the tiniest cruelty like thinking evil of others– that is wrong. I make a big distinction between those two factors – the natural & the demonic.

Here I might add that animals, the predators, do not THINK evil of any being when they hunt them – they have not the significant frontal lobes by which to think. They go only by instinct & they MUST hunt in order to live & propagate their species.     Rasa

 

William says: Hi Rasa,

This is how I see the whole issue of life and death.

 

I think that the spirit world sees death differently than what we do in the material world. I am remember some years ago hearing about a woman who had a Near Death Experience. She died on a operation table but the surgeons brought her back to life. But while she was dead she went through the tunnel and met some of her dead relationship and experienced a beautiful world of love and harmony. So when the surgeons tried to bring her body back to life she didn’t want to return. But in the end she agreed to come back to look after her children. 

 

This then is the problem, she is not alone in this, many people who have had NDEs tell us that life in the spirit world is far better than living on this planet. So for people to live out their lives in our world we have to have no memory of the spirit world and a fear of death. Because if we did remember where we came from and didn’t have a fear of death. most of us wouldn’t stay living here. I can remember reading about mystics calling death a “blessed release”. So our horror and fear of death is not real. It is just an means of getting us to live out our our life on Earth. 

 

I know myself I have a horror of death and suffering and one of the reasons I’m vegan is that I don’t want to eat the bodies of dead animals and I would hate to kill an animal. But I also think animals are more aware of the spirit world than what we are and have a far less fear of death than what we do. So as mystics tell us, our real selves are not our bodies. We are all spiritual beings that choose to live in material bodies for awhile. 

 

I think the reason why we choose to live in material bodies is because we can experience things living in a body we wouldn’t experience in the spirit world.    William

 

Rasa says:

          William & Pete, I have seen numerous {50-100?} NDE podcasts, mostly from ‘Next Level Soul’ from Alex Ferrari. Some of them are incredible. Most of these people say there IS NO TIME in the next dimension. And they feel BLISS & don’t want to return but there’s things on earth that make them – like children.

          There has to be a reason for living here, from what I understand this is a place of LEARNING & we learn through moreso pain than joy {explain that} so indeed, it is ‘the valley of tears’ – ‘the valley of the shadow of death.’

          I have spoken again & again of my dilemma with the predator. Can either of you shed light on this? I can’t, I just must accept it as a part of God’s plan, that it is righteous.

          Suffering is a great part of this life & it’s TERRIBLE. Mine is small compared to others yet I feel it to the max. It is the thing we hate the most but apparently gives us the most CREDIT in terms of Grace, if we bear it well.

          What do you friends think about suffering? Jesus has been the prime example of suffering for salvation: Giving up this life in order to find it – Eternal Joy. I think it’s a lesson in LOVE.

God is saying: Do you love me {Eternal Life} enough to be willing to sacrifice & even give up the temporal body? – A hard lesson to learn.

                           About suffering:  The issue is not the Jesus version of suffering which I well understand.  It is the suffering caused by the natural order of God causing predation, which NOT A SIN.  I understand the sin aspect & the self sacrificing aspect & the aspect of proving one’s love.  It is the predator must terrify & kill in order to survive aspect I want to address.  This is the suffering of the victims, which is also God.  God is predator & victim in this POV.

 

Why not have all life as vegetarians?   Rasa  

 

From William: Hi Rasa

I don’t like predators either, but it does seem that pain and suffering is part of the material world. What I think about this, is that we seem to be attracted to suffering and drama. If an author was to write a book about a perfect world where everyone was loving, caring and lived in harmony with each other. No one would want to read a book like that, but write a book about a sadistic serial killer and it will probably be a best seller. So we give ourselves away by what we find is interesting and entertaining.

 

This to me suggests we come from a perfect world of love and harmony and we have found such a world boring. So we are attracted to this world, because we can experience pain, suffering and drama. Then when we die and we return to the spirit world and we can appreciate the perfect world of love and harmony. Until we get bored with it, so we have to come to a world like this again to know what it’s like to experience a world of pain and suffering once again. 

 

We also get to experience things like self-sacrifice, to love others in difficult conditions and for men, to be a hero. We can only experience these things living in a vulnerable body that can experience pain. Women will voluntary go and become nurses and care workers and care for people who are in pain and are suffering. While men will do daft things like climb mountains, drive fast cars or fight in wars. So it does suggest that we come to this planet to experience the drama of life.  William

 

From Rasa:

This is an unusual letter but doesn’t answer my question. I need to think about this, what you said. You raise different issues. I also want to pursue the issue I raised.

 

My issue is not from OUR POV, which you address, but FROM GOD’S POV. See the difference?     Rasa

 

Pete says: Good evening, Rasa and William.

To answer your question, my thoughts on (human) suffering are largely similar to William’s overall I think.  I tend to think of suffering as the “teacher of last resort” for the most part.  As for the related corollary question that often comes up, is suffering good for the soul, I would say that cannot be answered as a simple yes or no, but rather it is very nuanced and complicated I think. 

 

But the far more relevant question here, i.e. why suffering exists in the animal kingdom, such as via predation?  That is a question that I believe only God really knows the answer to.  I find it very hard to wrap my mind around.   Perhaps, like some philosophers have noted in the past, there must for some reason that is  not quite fully understood, be a perpetual balance between joy and suffering on Earth, at least in the long run.  For humans that makes sense.  But how that would apply to nonhuman life remains unclear IMHO.

I have no further answers beyond that at this time.  Definitely something to think about. 

Rasa, you now have the floor. Thank you, Pete

 Rasa says:

Pete, you did note my actual question, which William did not.  Not discussing human suffering via development of the soul, sacrifice, penance, gaining Grace – none of that.  That, like I said, I understand.

    It’s the predation/victim issue I’m trying to fathom.  God is in it.  Why, God?

    The only thing I have this moment is yesterday I went by my creek & spent an hour & had a couple bags with me by which I wanted to pick flat rocks to put around my animal feeding station -  to avoid some of the mud when it rains.  I also had my favorite cup for coffee I’ve been drinking out of for 40 years.  It’s so thick it weighs at least a pound & has a wonderful Xmas picture on it done by Norman Rockwell.

    I was shy about taking this precious cup down by the creek but I did & when I put a rock into my bag – the cup was in it.  So far so good.  But then I put the bag down & it landed against another rock & I heard a SNAP.  Quickly searched my cup & it was alright!  

    ‘Can’t break that thick cup’

    I thought.

    Then today as I drank my coffee, looked at the back of the cup & saw that it had a crack!  It does NOT leak, as solid as before, but a visible crack, very thin. {spoke too soon, next day the crack is slightly leaking}

    And God my Inner Self spoke to me through the crack,

    “All life has to die for other life to be born.  It has to be sacrificed, go back to the dust.”

    OK God, I thought.  But why does it have to be violent?  Can’t we just get tired of living or say I’m finished, done it all, want to go home to God, go unconscious, pass out, & appear where we’re supposed to be – Heaven hopefully?

    That, – the jury is still out on.

    Maybe I’ll get a vision on it.  If I do my big question will be resolved.   Rasa

 

From William: I should imagine that God’s POV and our POV would be the same, Rasa. After all God is within us all and we are within God. The only difference would be that God sees the whole while we work on the individual level.     william

 

From Rasa: Good words William, but what is the answer?  Why does God appear as a predator to kill other life?  And God is also the victims.  Why did not God create a scene of Peace, here on earth?  I know one can find Peace in their heart & in the afterlife, but when a victim is hunted by a predator it feels frightened, runs for their life if they can, & suffers a violent & painful death. – This so that the predator, who loves itself & it’s children, can live.  That is what mystifies me.  God arranges & permits this.  Why can’t we all be vegetarians & die of natural causes?  God can permit us to die sooner & limit the birth rate if God wants to slow down overpopulation.

 

God can also limit the terror & fear of the hunted.  And God does.  I know when the fox caught my chicken, I chased it off, I got the chicken & it was in a stupor. - Not totally aware of it’s situation, & it was not injured.  Then again when we have severe injuries God does make our own anti-pain system kick in, it numbs the pain.  I’ve heard a lady who was shot many times said this.  Then God makes us pass out if pain is too much.  Yes there are remedies, also made by God.  It’s not all 10th degree pain.  I understand why humans need pain, correction & suffering – for our sins, from this life & past lives.  But animals NEVER SINNED.

 

I looked up the brain system of animals yesterday & like I said, their frontal lobes, temporal lobes & corpus collasum are not developed like ours.  They don’t think & reason like us, they can’t sin, only obey instincts & impulses.

 

Let’s close this convo for now as none of has the answer. {end}

 PS:

From William:

I think Rasa that there is an explanation to what you say in the Hindu text Bhagavad-Gita about the God Krishna. In one of his stories he is charioteer to a prince called Arjuna who had to fight a battle against his brothers. He doesn’t want to do this and asked Krishna what he should do. The advice Krishna gives is to go through with it. Arjuna replied he does want to fight his brothers but Krishna insists he fights the battle against his brothers. This seems to be strange advice for a God to give. But Krishna says it is the whole point of life. We are in this world to experience many different emotions and dramas. 

 

If we go back to the predator and the victim. If we look at any wild-life film it is mostly sex and violence. We see images of predators hunting and killing animals, we see male animals fight each other and we see animals having sex together. The only really loving scenes are baby animals suckling their mothers. A wildlife film that doesn’t show sex and violence and just of animals eating grass or leaves would be very boring. 

 

We think we want to live lives of love and harmony, but is that true? If our whole lives was of just relating to loving and caring people, would we be bored with this? Yes, we want to live loving lives but not all the time. It is the contrast of meeting people who are cruel and nasty that makes us appreciate more, loving and caring people.  william

 

Rasa says: “We are in this world to experience many different emotions and dramas.” 

So far, that’s the best answer we’ve got William, lol.  So I will rest with that.   {end}